Dressing For Success

Host:  Dr. Jennifer Hunter, Assistant Director for Family and Consumer Sciences Extension, University of Kentucky

Guest: Mindy McCulley, Extension Specialist for Instructional Support and Jeanne Badgett, Senior Extension Associate for Clothing, Textiles, and Household Equipment

Episode 23, Season 2

0:00 Welcome to Talking FACS; what you need to know about family, food, finance and fitness. Hosted by the University of Kentucky Family and Consumer Sciences Extension Program, our educators share research knowledge with individuals, families and communities to improve quality of life.

0:19 Dr. Hunter: Hello and welcome to Talking FACS. This is your host, Dr. Jennifer Hunter, Assistant Director for Family Consumer Sciences Extension at the University of Kentucky.

Today, I'm pleased to have joining me, Mindy McCulley, our Extension Specialist for Instructional Support. And additionally, Jeanne Badgett, our Senior Extension Associate for Clothing, Textiles and Household Equipment. Welcome to both of you all.

0:40 Jeanne Badgett: Thank you.

0:42 Mindy McCulley: We’re happy to be here.

0:43 Dr. Hunter: So, I'm excited about today's topic because I can always use some help in this area. And we have titled this Dressing for Success. And just in the professional world, sometimes, getting up and getting dressed can really be a challenge. And I hope I'm not alone in that, but really figuring out what is appropriate to wear in specific settings.

And I know today we're primarily going to talk about dressing for success in terms of a job interview, but really and truly, it relates across the board in any type of professional setting.

1:18 Mindy McCulley: Yes. I mean, it's not appropriate for us to show up to work in our cut-off jeans and T-shirts; that's just not something that we do here at the university. And lots of industries have those same codes (dress codes) that we want to follow as well.

1:33 Dr. Hunter: And so, I think that many of our podcast topics apply to both men and women, but I'm just going to go ahead and throw this out there too and maybe this is just in my own head. I think that professionally dressing is much more difficult for women. I tell my husband all the time that there's just no female equivalent to khaki pants and buttoned down shirt and throwing in a blue blazer in case you need it.

1:54 Mindy McCulley: Exactly.

1:55 Jeanne Badgett: True, but I also I think it's a little bit easier to dress as a woman, because we have so many options. You know, we can wear a dress or pants or a skirt. But I know what you mean.

2:05 Dr. Hunter: Ok. So, this is good that you all are here because you're going to help me overcome that statement. Because that's typically what comes out, if I get frustrated, I'm like, “You just don't understand. It's so much harder for me.” But you're going to help me understand that no, it's not and that I probably do have the appropriate clothes in my wardrobe or any type of setting.

And again, we are really going to frame this in terms of dressing for success for a job interview. But really and truly, it applies across the board professionally.

2:35 Mindy McCulley: Sure. So, let's talk about that job interview. So, first of all, you want to know the company that you're interviewing with. You want to know what their standards are. And so, you don't want to walk into -- You know, if you're interviewing with a fitness company, just because you think that it would be okay to wear fitness wear –

2:50 Dr. Hunter: Don't wear my yoga pants.

2:52 Mindy McCulley: Yeah, we don't want to wear our yoga pants. Find out; is that what the CEO or whoever it is that you're interviewing with is going to be wearing? Because then maybe it would be ok. But it's always better to be overdressed than underdressed, is the maxim that I want to go with.

3:05 Jeanne Badgett: Because it's important to remember what you're wearing is a way of communicating who you are.

3:06 Mindy McCulley: Exactly.

3:07 Jeanne Badgett: And your clothing is a big form of nonverbal communication.

3:13 Mindy McCulley: Right. Exactly. How you're dressed and how you're groomed, that's your visual résumé. They're seeing you and they're making impressions. Whether you like that or not, they are making impressions.

3:24 Dr. Hunter: And I think that that is a great tip. Just to my particular position, I have the opportunity to interview a lot of different folks for different types of positions and I have definitely seen the gamut, when it comes to how individuals are dress for an interview. But there is no doubt that that initial first appearance, when you walk in the door of being dressed appropriately, really and truly sets the stage for the rest of that meeting.

So, in thinking about tailoring to the specific industry or the type of industry that we might be interviewing for, I liked what you said a minute ago about identifying what the person that is interviewing you might be wearing.

4:04 Mindy McCulley: Right. Yeah. Just do some research. You know, if you can go and visit, maybe you can go “undercover” and visit, just to kind of see what's going on in that company.

Now, if it's a really small company, that might not be easy to do. But if you're here at the university and you're interviewing, it's really easy to walk in the building and just kind of look and see whose names are on the door and kind of what their dress might be.

Beyond that go online. You can do a little research about that company and see what it looks like and you get a feel. But do some homework; don't just get up on the morning of the interview and decide, “Okay, I'm going to throw on this. And we'll be ready to go.” Because like we said, this is your opportunity to make your first impression and you don't get a second chance to do that.

4:49 Dr. Hunter: And I feel that dress and appearance really matters, regardless of the level or position that you're applying for. So, my son's a teenager and he is looking for a part-time job. And he went in to fill out a job application the other day. He told me he was going to go do it. There was a day that they were off school and he had a plan. You know, I said, “You got to change your shirt before you go.”

And it's not that any place that he was going in to fill it out, it wasn't a dressing environment, it wasn't anything like that, but he had on -- he looked fine for a teenager on T-shirt and jeans. But I said, “You got to put on a collared shirt and you need to look the part of being someone that they would want to hire. And they know that you wear jeans and a T-shirt on a daily basis and yes, everyone in there is probably wearing jeans and a T-shirt to perform that function, but put on a collared shirt. Like be proud of your presentation.”

5:39 Jeanne Badgett: Good point. Because you always want to dress maybe one level above, in the case of if it's a place where they just wear T-shirts and jeans, do that collared shirt or if they wear collared shirts, but no tie, may maybe put on a tie for the interview.

5:52 Mindy McCulley: Right. And that's always a great way to be. And that's even on the job dressing. You know, we talk about if you're presenting to a group, you want to be one level above what your group is so that you're respected

6:04 Jeanne Badgett: and stand out as the authority figure,

6:06 Mindy McCulley: So, those are all important characteristics to have.

Also, when you are dressed well, it helps with your own self-confidence. And so that is also projected, whether you're interviewing for a job or presenting to the Chamber of Commerce, to make yourself feel more confident in what you are presenting or interviewing for.

6:26 Jeanne Badgett: And I think on that. So, any of these levels, whether it's a casual dress, regardless of what you're wearing, you want to make sure that your clothes are clean and pressed or neat. And also that they fit properly. And that's the big thing with confidence. And no matter what size you are or what body type, make sure your clothes fit properly and you can consider getting things altered or tailored, if that's within your budget.

6:48 Dr. Hunter: Let's talk just a little bit about tailoring and altering, because I think sometimes in my mind I'll think, “Oh, that will be really expensive.” Is it costly to get something altered just in general? I know it depends on how much alteration it is.

7:01 Jeanne Badgett: Sure.

7:02 Dr. Hunter: So like if you need to have a hem.

7:04 Jeanne Badgett: Right. Not necessarily. I mean, you can find people in town that will hem a pair of pants for $10 or $20. You just have to weigh in how much the pair of pants cost, but people can do that.

7:15 Mindy McCulley: People can't see us, but you and I are both short. And so, that's a skill that maybe you might want to learn. If you're going to have to be hemming a lot of pants, then maybe learning how to he01m pants might be something that would be beneficial.

7:30 Jeanne Badgett: Right. And through our extension initiatives, we have sewing class and those sorts of things where we can teach people how to do that on their own.

7:39 Mindy McCulley: Exactly. We weren't really going to go developing new skills, but perhaps this is a good opportunity to develop a new skill.

7:44 Dr. Hunter: So, let me ask this question. We've talked about various situations and maybe being dressed one step nicer than the person that you're interviewing with. It's still like there's different kind of levels of dress out there that often you'll hear terms like casual or business casual. What really are the different situations that you would wear different type of dress?

8:06 Mindy McCulley: So, I'm thinking casual dress can be very casual. And where we're going to be, lots of times we see students dressing when they come to class very casually. And so, that could be anything from the yoga pants and T-shirts –

8:21 Dr. Hunter: Shorts, T-shirt.

8:22 Mindy McCulley: Short. Yeah. So, that would be your lowest level. Not necessarily that it's -- we're not putting a judgment on it. We've got to start somewhere. So, that would be level number one.

And then we have business casual. And so, this is going to be dependent a little bit on your situation or your environment; your working environment. But we typically think of khaki pants and a collared shirt, if you're a man or a collared shirt if you're a woman, you know, polo style-shirt would be business casual.

And then we can go up a level with that. And we would call it business casual, wo. And you can add a third layer. So, you might have a jacket or a twin set might be something that a woman would wear.

9:01 Jeanne Badgett: Right. I see Mindy has on a twin set.

9:02 Mindy McCulley: I have on a twin set today. I thought I should dress the part.

9:04 Dr. Hunter: And then professional would be a suit, jacket.

9:08 Mindy McCulley: Structured dress or with a jacket or a sweater or something like that.

9:13 Dr. Hunter: On my cheat sheet for our show notes, you’ve given me a term called value-based wardrobe. What is a value-based wardrobe?

9:20 Mindy McCulley: So, this would be a situation where you don't have a whole lot of money, but you want to always look your best. And so, you're going to find those key pieces that are versatile and can be used in a multitude of situations.

So, it might be that little black dress. You know, we often hear referred to the little back black dress. But really, that is something that can be dressed up or down, depending on what shoes and accessories you use. You might go with khaki pants or khaki skirt;  are good to have. Nice neutral colors that can be switched out with various tops and bottoms. Well, so that you can maximize your dollars.

10:02 Jeanne Badgett: A way to think about a versatile garment is something that's basic and simple. So, when going shopping, think about that. Is it basic and simple and can I accessorize it?

10:12 Mindy McCulley: And quality. It might be that you can purchase this $10 dress, but if it's only going to last through one laundry cycle, then maybe that was not the best $10 spent. But you could go to a nice consignment shop and buy a $10 dress that has held up for someone else for a little while and it will hold up for you as well. So, think about the difference between cost and value and not necessarily always let price be --

10:41 Jeanne Badgett: Quality is a big, I think a big component because when you have those, we spend a little bit more for the nicer pieces that are made of nicer materials and fibers and yarns and the construction – the way it's put together, it'll be more flattering.

So, sometimes it's worth to pay a little bit extra. But if you watch for those sales and like you said, go into consignment shops, it'll really pay off in the end.

11:03 Mindy McCulley: Yeah. I'm a big proponent of sale shopping.

11:07 Jeanne Badgett: You can spend for certain basic investment pieces. It's good to spend as much as you can, as you can afford. And sometimes, they say, “You want to dress the part.” So, if you're looking to get that really nice, good job --

11:17 Mindy McCulley: And if you don't have any disposable income right now, especially when you're going to interview for jobs, you don't have that.

11:23 Dr. Hunter: And I know local communities also will sometimes have a community-type closet of where professional dress has been donated that you can go in and find, regardless of age or position or whatever it is that you're applying for, but that you can also go in and find professional dress.

And just as I listened to you, I'll talk about a value-based wardrobe and certainly there's the cost saving aspect of it. But Jeanne, I know that you're an organizer by heart and we should probably do a whole podcast on organization. But it also sounds to me like that really and truly kind of you're minimizing your closet, which makes -- I would think you're more organized in life and probably take some of that stress away in the morning of trying to figure out what it is that you're going to wear because you're not looking at it as much, you're trying to just figure out how to put the pieces together.

12:07 Jeanne Badgett: Yes, absolutely. And I would love to do a podcast on organization.

12:18 Dr. Hunter: Just as we were talking, I thought it had popped in my head.

12:20 Jeanne Badgett: And even the “capsule wardrobe." But yeah, I think the fewer garments you have, you go for quality over quantity. And it does make getting dressed easier and you just stick with those basics.

12:28 Mindy McCulley: And I mean, so many times I hear someone say, “I have closets and closets of clothing and I don't have a thing to wear.”

12:34 Jeanne Badgett: Nothing to wear. And they say you wear 20 percent of your clothes 80 percent of the time. But in this case, I mean, I know we're focusing on dressing for success and it is hard if you're starting from the bottom; you don't have a lot in your clothing budget, but there are definitely ways to go about this so that you can dress for success on a on a minimal budget.

12:55 Mindy McCulley: So, we talked a little bit about how important it is that we get quality garments. But what about taking care of those garments? What are some things that we can do to make them last longer?

13:05 Jeanne Badgett: Alright, that's a good question because basically one big thing with this whole dressing for success thing; if you come home from your job interview or even if you've got the job and you come home the end of the day, when you get undressed, first thing, don't throw what you wore on the floor or even in the laundry, because most likely it can be worn again.

You can just hang up your items, let them air out because you really want to avoid over washing or over dry cleaning as much as you can, because that will put wear and tear on your garment and it won't maintain its nice appearance and last as long.

Now, certain things you do: you want to wash often, your undergarments or if there's a shirt of a certain -- if it's an easy care fabric, you can throw it in the wash, but suits, suiting material; whether it's made of wool or even polyester, just hang it up and wear it again. Wear it as many times as you can, because as it airs out, the moisture from your body that's trapped in the clothing will evaporate and then the odors will, too. So, I think that's the main thing. And it really helps protect your investment.

And then sometimes if you've got a garment that's wrinkly, whenever you hang it up, you want to make sure that you're hanging it up nicely on a hanger so you're not going to create bulges or ripples in the garment. But then you can hang it in the bathroom when you're showering. If it gets kind of steamy, it'll help release those wrinkles.

14:29 Mindy McCulley: So, what about fabric refreshers? We’re kind of going right off subject here. But what do you think about those fabric refreshers that we see advertised?

14:36 Jeanne Badgett: Personally, not whether I'm endorsing or not endorsing, I don't use them. But I from what I've heard, they're okay. But I think that would be something we could address once I get more research, since we want our information to be research-based.

But in some of our publications that we have online and under extension, we do reference dry cleaning kits that you can use in your dryer. I don't know about recent research on that.

But I think every when it comes to laundry and caring for your garments, whether they're stuff we'd wear to work or not, everybody's going to do their own thing and they're going to look stuff up on the Internet and whether it's true or not. So, we will definitely work on that programming. So, stay tuned.

15:21 Dr. Hunter: And I will say and just thinking about reading labels, that that is something I've learned over my working career is to be very cognizant of what the label says and how to care for the garment. Because dry cleaning especially can be so expensive that I do want to make certain that it is something that will wash and wear.

Now, personally, and you all that listen a lot know this; I like to iron. So, I don't really worry about how badly the fabric will wrinkle, I can let that go in my shopping. But I do always look at the label to know how to care for it, because then I'm also thinking about the future expense associated with that garment.

15:58 Jeanne Badgett: Because that is part of the cost. So, as you're trying to dress for success and you're going out buying that first dress or suit, definitely check the care label. And no matter what it says, whether it's machine wash, gentle or hand wash or dry clean, take that into account.

And if it does say dry clean, most likely you should get it professionally cleaned every so often, just to help get the soil out. But sometimes, you can launder those items at home that say “Dry clean only.”

So, on that, again, we've got information on our extension website about those sorts of things.

16:34 Mindy McCulley: And also you can over dry-clean.

16:37 Jeanne Badgett: Yes, you can, because then –

16:38 Mindy McCulley: You can really see the wear on something.

16:40 Jeanne Badgett: That will. That will.

16:43 Dr. Hunter: I did not know that that was a thing. It's not a worry because I don't like to pay for dry cleaning. So, I certainly don't over dry clean. But I didn't even know that that was a thing.

16:51 Jeanne Badgett: It is. It is. And I must say, I am guilty. And as a clothing and textiles expert, my husband wears really nice button down shirts to work every day and we send them to the cleaners after one or two wearing's and it's really just because he wants them to look crisp. And I've tried to do it at home, tried to wash them and iron them but it's not worth it's not worth my time.

17:15 Dr. Hunter: It's hard to get the looks.

17:17 Jeanne Badgett: Yes. So, I am raising my hand saying, “I'm guilty. You know, we are guilty of probably over dry-cleaning his shirts. But it is best to not to over dry-clean, like Mindy says.

17:28 Dr. Hunter: Ladies, this is fun. I feel like that we could talk about clothes all day long. But I appreciate you all being here and joining us today and really just kind of getting folks thinking about how it is that they can dress for success; if it's for an interview or just professionally in the world that they are working in every day.

17:48 Jeanne Badgett: I think one thing to add; just remember, after all said and done, don't forget to smile.

17:53 Mindy McCulley: That's right.

17:54 Dr. Hunter: That’s a great tip.

17:56 Mindy McCulley: Yeah. Always important to smile.

17:58:15 Dr. Hunter: Thank you all.

17:59 Mindy McCulley: Thank you.

17:59 Jeanne Badgett: Thank you.

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